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International ProgramThe Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations |
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The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). |
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Interview with Yulia TymoshenkoA head of the Yulia Tymoshenko's Bloc faction in the Supreme Rada of Ukraine What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?First, in my life, I have already made my own political, moral, if you like, "geographical" choice — a "Ukrainian" one. That is why I consider the rest of "choices" (be they European, Russian, American, Eskimos or the like) from exactly this point of view: how much one or another geopolitical orientation, economic strategy can be conductive to development of my mother country. Second, the word-combination "European choice", which you have just used, in political practice of today's Ukraine represents an ideological trick by Kuchma's government, serving not more than one purpose: to lessen the pressure exerted by the West (EU and US) upon the repressive and kleptocratic regime created by this government, and thereby to postpone the unavoidable break-up. All these renamings, which are being carried out in the governmental structures ("Ministry of Economy and European integration", as well as the other indicative arrangements), L.Kuchma's pro-European rhetoric, European integration programmes which in reality conflict with the Ukrainian authorities' practical steps, — all these are mere formal gestures, a double diplomatic game. From this standpoint, I thoroughly disapprove of the "European choice" in L.Kuchma and his surroundings' manner. Moreover, I think that the European leaders who today swallow this bait of the official Kyiv's rhetoric are making a blunder, including as regards Ukraine's further "Europeanisation". Third, "Europe" for me is associated, first of all, with certain humanitarian, value achievements in the field of democracy, freedom and human rights, culture and science. Paraphrasing a well-known utterance by K.Stanislavsky, I would say that we, Ukrainians, should love not ourselves in Europe but Europe in ourselves. The more life in Ukraine approaches the European level (by its quality, prosperity, democracy, humaneness), the more evident is the country's orientation to the West. And if the Europeans help us on this way, we will appreciate their interest. Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.The reason why approaching to the EU can be regarded as a priority of the Ukrainian geopolitical strategy is obvious. The European Union is one of the main centres of evolution of humankind. Its scientific and technical, industrial, investment potential; democratic and liberal experience, political "availability" are impressive, indeed (in comparison with other regional alliances), and they attract the neighbouring countries which on account of one or another historic reason could not manage to achieve any comparable results. The "European zone of development", in its turn, is also being a zone of safety for today, and joining to it promises obvious political, economic and military-political advantages to the countries bordering upon the EU; it also provides better opportunities for standing for their own national interests. Ukraine does not make up an exception in this sense: we would like to "warm ourselves" by the European bonfire and to make use of the above-mentioned advantages. Concerning the obstacles, I have already mentioned the main one — this is Kuchma's ruling regime and economic oligarchy. Exactly they are those who put obstacles in the way of Ukraine's economic progress, dissipate and squander our national resources, impede democratic movement, dishonour the country and its people before the international community. I do not see any other important impediments. Most Ukrainians stand for the country's gradual integration into the European Community, what is testified by numerous polls. How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in the all-European political, economic and public processes?Joining of European "Orthodox" countries to the "Catholic-Protestant" European Union will re-unite civilisation "branches" of the Christian oecumene and thereby change spiritual landscape of the united Europe. I am sure that this "cultural union" will bring out the most colossal results for both the "old" Europe and the whole humankind. It will fundamentally "rejuvenate" the European civilisation and prepare it to new achievements. As concerns Ukraine's role, I hope that in future united Europe our country will become prominent in various spheres — in those of spiritual thought, science and technology, art, — as Ukraine's endowments in these fields are obvious. Particularly, I hope that the Ukrainian nation, having become a part of the European multi-national community, will hinder from the levelling, unifying tendencies of European integration. The ability of the Ukrainians to keep their own "cultural face", cultivated by hundreds years of dependence, will assist them in finding themselves in new geopolitical circumstances and in responding to the challenges issued by globalisation, with new spiritual attainments. As regards economy, Ukraine's joining to the EU will provide noticeable benefits. One can speak of the potentials of Ukrainian industrial infrastructure, innovative potential, energy resource etc. a lot. Speaking of geo-economy, I would accentuate only one thing: Ukraine is a communicative hub on the crossroads of Europe and Asia, a favourable base for the EU's outlet to the Caspian region, for enlarging of the economic expansion to Russia and farther to the East. And there is nothing to add to this. The EU's present expansion and its influence upon Ukraine.I evaluate the process of the EU's expansion to the East rather positively. First, it will substantively bring the European Community near Ukraine and vice versa; reduce political, economic and cultural distance between us to the dimensions of a borderline. It will automatically make the mutual interchange in various spheres easier. Second, this will strengthen international pressure upon the authoritarian regime dominating over Ukraine; contribute to its break-up and to recommencement of democratic, liberal and market reforms in the country. Third, this will permit us to observe the consequences of joining to the EU of the Eastern European countries which are kindred to us by their history, mentality and social-economic characteristics, and thereby we could decrease the number of our possible integration mistakes in future. The role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realisation of the "European choice of Ukraine".The positive thing, as for me, is their integration and reforming experience, mediation in establishing of exchange with other EU member-countries, persuasiveness of their successful model. The above-mentioned countries of the Central-Eastern Europe understand Ukraine's social realities better than the rest of members of "large Europe", and that will assist them in playing of their, indeed, important positive role in Ukraine's approaching to the European Union. However, this role can turn out to be a negative one, under certain circumstances, — for example, if it is discovered, in the course of time, that the EU's further enlargement would prevent realisation of interests of newcomers to the Union. It is especially possible if they decide in Brussels that the process of the EU's further enlargement should be frozen for several decades. What is not improbable, taking into consideration the telling controversies existing within the Union and the economic difficulties the West has been experiencing recently. Under these circumstances, exactly the countries of the Central-Eastern Europe will accomplish the task of Ukraine's "ping-ponging" from Europe. I hope this will not happen. Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?I cannot see any practical meaning in this question. First, Russia has never stated officially its wish to join the EU in future. That is why I consider the slogan "to Europe together with Russia", launched by some Ukrainian politicians, as a completely demagogic one. Thereupon I am at one with many Russian high officials who repeatedly expressed their surprise at this formula. Thus, Europe on its own, Russia on its own, the USA on their own, Turkey on its own and so on. Second: moreover, everyone realises that the EU with Russia would represent quite a different geopolitical structure (another question — either it is a good or a bad one) than that one Europe has been building for half a century. Therefore, Ukraine's joining to the EU in tandem with Russia is a plan that fundamentally differs from that one you mean while speaking on Eurointegration. This is mere futurology dealing with the second half, or even the end of the 21st century. And, as a politician, I am not inclined to discuss any projects related to remote future. At the same time, I do not agree with the opinion that Ukraine's Eurointegration implies its recession from extensive co-operation with Russia. After all, this is impossible in view of numerous political, historic, cultural-ethnic, economic reasons. It is quite another question that this co-operation has to be developed on basis of parity and mutual benefit, — quite otherwise as it is being done in creating of a gas-transporting consortium. By the way, Germany's role in the project demonstrates that the EU's economic activities in the region can be at direct variance with Ukraine's interests. And this is unacceptable, no matter how fine the accompanying words about the "European choice" would be. The problem of visas and migration from Ukraine to the EU.First of all, I would emphasise that the problem of migration and guest workers is, in the final analysis, being the problem of a political regime in Ukraine. The present authorities' policy, their unwillingness and inability to carry out effective reforms is forcing infinitely many Ukrainians to seek after better lot abroad. After all, the Ukrainians go to the EU countries to work in those "lower" sectors of economy where natives do not like to work, where none would work, under normal circumstances. To solve the problem of the Ukrainians' illegal labour migration to the EU, Russia etc., in principle, we need, primarily, to exempt Ukraine from Kuchma and his oligarchic surroundings and start intensive social and economic reforms. People are being forced abroad by unemployment and poverty. If the EU helps Ukraine to overcome them, a flow of migrators will rapidly diminish, I assure you. Second, the EU countries should not keep their eyes shut to the fact that our illegal migration is possible because of too wide opportunities for illegal work in Europe, — the opportunities which the Ukrainians, as well as the Russians, the Turks, the Chinese, the Hindu etc. avail themselves of. Clear up with your employers, with your officials and police officers, who, accepting bribes, accommodate the illegals with opportunities to reside on the EU territory, — and the pressure of migration will weaken by itself. These are evident double standards: on the one hand, to get rich at the expense of cheap and socially unprotected migrators' labour force, and on the other — to accuse the same Ukraine (under the circumstances of an economic depression in the country) of its incapacity for stopping the flow of migrators coming to the West. As regards visas, nothing can be done there. Visa regime, uniform for all the countries of Schengen treaty, one way or another, will be established on Ukraine's border. And Ukraine has to accept this until it joins this treaty. Quite another matter is the fact that the countries of the Central-Eastern Europe, in which the Ukrainians compactly reside, should take into consideration that these people have right to visit their relatives on both sides of the border without any difficulties. What would you advise to change in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine?The main hindrance to the process of Ukraine's approach to Europe is application of double standards, both in policy and in economy. The EU countries, in fact, accept existence on their borders of a political mode that does not correspond with the idea of democracy and a civilised society. This makes the Ukrainian opposition suggest that they in Europe, in fact, are not so interested in Ukraine's Eurointegration. Present state and perspectives of European business in Ukraine and Ukrainian business in Europe.Under that corrupted political regime which is now ruling in the country, Ukraine can hardly expect any progress in development of economic relations with the EU. However, potentially the extent of trade, economic co-operation, production, science and engineering exchange is rather considerable. What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?It is Ukraine's great attainment and, at the same time, its historical misfortune that it has been developing in the plane of too active civilisation contacts. This caused centrifugal cultural, political, economical tendencies, over and over again. The history of partition of Ukrainian churches into the Orthodox and the Greek-Catholic ones is a glaring example of this, as well as the division of Ukraine among the empires, etc. And at the same time, this allowed Ukraine to develop its own unique culture and spirituality, which organically combines various mental paradigms, among which there can also be found, of course, a very influential "Western" one. The very "Spengler" question about the "Western culture" I personally consider rather old-fashioned one. Who can today explain to me what exactly the "Western culture" is, when "non-Western" Greece and "half-Western" Portugal are members of the EU, and entirely Muslim Turkey is being energetically nominated? What "the Western culture" of Germany's Kurd enclaves is, as well as the culture of "Chinatowns", "Asian" towns of England, of the Ukrainians' residential areas in Madrid and Naples? The Europeans do not have any clear answer to this question; they have only a complete wish to create the great European home's new culture, based on democratic values and the European peoples' advanced accomplishments. The thesis about the "Western world", as for me, is also a rudimentary organ of a "cold war" between the capitalistic West and the Soviet East. This East does not exist now, so Ukraine's estimation in this frame of reference is out of place. And, in general, I think that the less we use the out-of-date mythologies and ideological clichés which in the past reflected dividing lines and opposition fronts, the faster we will come to mutual understanding in our common European home. Copyright © Fundacja Batorego
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