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International ProgramThe Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations |
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The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). |
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Interview with Oleh SamchyshynPresident of The Ukrainian Consumers' Association What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?To my mind, "Ukraine's European choice" is evidently a better life, in the first place. All politics, any elections start with the question, "How do we live? What do we think about? What do we worry about?" If we think of our daily bread only, then all other values will seem to be unimportant things. If our people are poor, hungry, dissatisfied at their salary that is not enough to provide a necessary minimum for a person, then all other things — questions and problems of rights and liberties, justice, morality, establishing of European values in our daily life — will not be appreciated properly, in such a way the authorities see this. We do take certain steps to approach Europe. We apprehend and realise many values produced by the European civilisation. We try to widen our cooperation with governmental and — what is more important — with non-governmental organisations. Studying abroad and task programmes of exchange of scientists and students can give us a lot. Ukraine's European choice is a market, market economy, democracy, principles of equal rights and equal starting opportunities for every person in Ukraine. Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.There are subjective and objective causes there. Let us begin with objective ones. Ukraine has come out of a powerful centralised state with a planned economy, the state that possessed its own system of values. Most people who are driving Ukraine at the present stage originated from that system. Machiavelli once said, "People are easy to convince of something. It is much more difficult to keep them in this confidence". Today it is hard to keep people in confidence that the European choice of Ukraine is for the better. Our people know that life is better in the EU than in our country; our citizens would like to live the way people in the European Union do; but it is very difficult to replace an absorbing model of behaviour with a rendering, reproductive one. It is hard to master our own self and take a step towards European values by our own example. However, to tell the truth, not all values deserve to be repeated. The next reason is our, first, non-balanced, and, secondly, shadow economy, traditionally not responding to a consumer. And, in the third place: political life in Ukraine is characterized by multi-vectorness that in its turn results in instability and uncertainty. And we must choose a clear-cut direction. Unfortunately, we do not have one. Our realisation of foreign policy resembles of a fable by Ivan Krylov "A swan, a crayfish and a pike", where every character is pulling a cart in his own direction, and so they cannot get it moving. At that, I do not separate the state authorities and the society, as they most often correlate their actions with each other. We act as necessary in most cases, and the freedom to move is being a conscious necessity, too. But in our cultural level we remain seriously behind an average European, first, owing to our complex of public — or, in other words, nobody's — property. If we come into a many-storeyed building and try to compare the condition of a flat, the fettle of a lift or a landing, we will become aware of the difference not only in the very attitude to property but in a cultural level, at once. A European considers an entrance to be a part of his accommodation, too, and the culture of everyday life is higher there. We also lack in consumer education, and the level of consumer culture is low in the country, too. Our buyer's behaviour is mostly ambitious (he or she thinks that he knows about commodities and services a lot), situative and irrational, unreasoned, intended for a close perspective; this often results in that the choice is made not in favour of quality but quick accessibility of a sales outlet, etc. Our people often buy meat and dairy products in dubious places from dubious people, not thinking about possible insalubrity of the given product to a human organism, first, to members of his or her own family. And the complex of reasons impeding Ukraine on its way to the EU is being formed from such small points. How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in the all-European political, economic and public processes?Let us consider this question from three standpoints. Political processes and Ukraine's participation in them. Ukraine is a great country with steady political traditions. It is one of the countries which passed the process of natural selection (Israel can also be counted among them), so it survives despite very hard times. And these traditions, together with Ukraine's role, are being now highly estimated in Europe. I have many contacts with my partners; the year before last, we met our Austrian colleagues, representatives of the Austrian Consumer Association, and they said: "Do not hurry to join Europe, keep those values you possess". But why? Our people have become accustomed to having a master who gained a great authority formed on mostly irrational basis; — he may be either a tsar or a president: a non-democratic model of the relations "citizens — authorities" that guarantees steadiness and stability of even not very high standard of living will always be more comprehensible than a democratic one. Democratic values cannot be transplanted to non-democratic or unprepared soil automatically. Our patriarchal traditions are not so easy to eradicate. If I am not mistaken, Machiavelli said that if we free a man who got used to live in bondage, he will run about like a wild animal, not knowing what to do, until someone clever will make use of this. On the other hand, culture of the Ukrainian people, from the angle of humanity and tolerance, is being among one of the world's highest ones. Public processes. The experience gained in the activities carried out by our non-governmental organisations during last ten years, as well as the work done by our analysts and historians, in fact, has not been appreciated yet. And we have done a lot during these years of independence. In fact, this is our first attempt of independence, and our achievements are not as unimportant as they may seem. There are few countries which can be characterised by such tense struggle for power. This is rather a positive than a negative process. And the economic standpoint. Ukraine possesses the best lands in Europe and age-old traditions of agriculture. I think, in future Ukraine will set the fashion in Europe as an agricultural-industrial country, in growing of agricultural product, in traditions of farming. For example, biotechnologies and genetically modified products will never be accepted in Ukraine. We have lobbied marking of genetically modified products in an article 18 of Ukraine's Law "On Protection of Consumers' Rights"; it is being a declarative standard so far, but in course of our work, we concluded that these products would never be accepted in Ukraine. In addition, our rural economies have a great outlook, and in the nearest future they could set the fashion in agriculture throughout the whole Europe. The EU's present expansion and its influence upon Ukraine.The influence is unambiguous: many people in Ukraine have begun to think about our country's perspectives in the new circumstances, and about what we have to do now. The aim is taking its shape clearly, though it is not as close as we would like it to be — our aim is to become a member of the European Union in the future. Both our neighbours and our politicians speak about this, no matter how the views on mechanisms of entering the EU differ. However, the task has been set, the aim formulated, so now we have to move and bring about all the necessary changes. The present enlargement of the European Union is a strong incentive for Ukraine, for positive changes in our economy, domestic and foreign policy of the country. The role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realisation of the "European choice of Ukraine".Ukraine has much in common with the countries — new members of the European Union. I take them mostly as a consumer. Poland, Hungary and Slovakia, as in the case of Ukraine, have well-developed food industry, and their product is known for its high nutritious and gustatory characteristics. Therefore, these countries' accession to the EU is a positive factor for Ukraine, as all these countries treat Ukraine with kindness and appreciation, and I think they can render us assistance, first, in advising concerning the transition to renewed, European conditions of cooperation. We keep close contacts with the consumers' associations of the above-mentioned countries, and they constantly express hope to see Ukraine a member of the EU in the near future. Recently we have reached unofficial agreements with Hungary, Slovakia and Ukraine on exchange of information and strengthening of relations in legal investigations concerning low-quality products. Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?As regards Ukraine's future accession to the European Union, our country should not become bound up officially with any other state. It is quite another matter that we have to abide the presence of a powerful Russian capital in our country. As Irving Stone once said, "However high our imaginings would reach, reality should be their pedestal". It is known that Russia is interested in wide cooperation with Europe, too. And our political elite has to take into consideration Russia's close interest in controlling of the process of Ukraine's approach to the EU. Of course, the idea of entering the European Union together with Russia is not bad in itself, but if Russia says "no", this must not serve as a determinative [deciding factor] for Ukraine. Our effective way to Europe consists in constant improvement of trade and economic relations. We should not be afraid of the European capital's coming to Ukraine. I consider important the opportunity to obtain services and buy goods of the European level of quality, no matter which capital backs one or another production. Money does not like any borders, and the present-day economy is being structured in such a way that we can hardly assert that only one national producer backs one or another brand [trademark]. What are the interests our domestic business has in countries of the European Union?The European business' main interest is most probably to be placed into agriculture, as the tendency of return to ecologically safe agricultural production is gradually prevailing in Europe. In particular, the so-called genetically modified cultures constitute a great problem there. People will completely realise their harmfulness [insalubrity] only in decades of years. Ukraine is being a country of immense lands, first of all. And it should attract foreign capital, including the European one. Our problem is that those European companies who have already entered our market, have to accept certain "shadow" rules of the game, peculiar to our domestic market. As for our domestic politicians and influential industrial-financial groups, they must contemplate every step they take in the direction of integration into the world economic space, thoroughly (the matter concerns not only the EU but, for example, the World Trade Organisation, too). We are quite able to fulfill all the requirements concerning our accession to these organisations, — however, what concrete benefits will we get from this? What would you advise to change in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine?First, they have to adopt a differentiated attitude toward Ukraine; they should not look at the country through the prism of its worst representatives. Today a preconceived negative notion is dominating, and this affects concrete contacts badly. Maintaining of unofficial contacts must play an important role. I mean interactions on the level of non-governmental organisations, scientific exchanges etc. Programmes like TACIS, aimed at interchange of experience among specialists from various countries, should be continued. And the Ukrainians must be invited not only for outward appearances there; we need full and effectual participation. Of course, the Europeans should have the right to control changes and results of their financial and technical support. The problem of visas and migration from Ukraine to the EU.Europe considers Ukraine as a buffer, a kind of a filter sifting criminal elements. Visa policy as regards Ukraine is being of a discriminative character, according to this vision. Humiliation starts from the very embassies; on the border you are asked whether you have certain sum of money with you, etc. The Europeans coming into Ukraine do not face such things. However, we also have to reconsider certain points; in particular, we should put a decisive end to an old practice of taking different prices for the same services from the Ukrainians and foreigners arriving to Ukraine. It is difficult to estimate the European Union's policy in general. My experience testifies that there exist essential differences in attitude toward the Ukrainians in different parts of "the old" Europe. What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?Of course, it is. The Ukrainians rooted throughout all continents. We possess a lobby even in the United States (possibly, not a very influential one, but the very fact is important!). We are bound with the Western world by numerous ties. As regards culture, the Ukrainian lifestyle is more conservative. Our culture is more deep-rooted than, for example, the American one. However, to my opinion, the Ukrainians, like most of the Slavs, are more openhearted and not inclined to formalisation of inter-human relations. In a certain sense, these features tell us apart from the West. Sometimes they can be positive, but at times they put us under certain disadvantages. Our political culture is also different; we possess other than in Europe attitude toward democracy. Our people usually cherish excessive expectancies for deeds performed by a concrete leader, not for work of a system of democratic institutions. Copyright © Fundacja Batorego
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