Fundacja im. Stefana Batorego

International Program

The Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations

contact:
Grzegorz Gromadzki
ggromadzki@batory.org.pl,
Anna Wróbel
awrobel@batory.org.pl

The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).

Interviews

Interview with Myroslav Volodymyrovych Popovych

A director of Institute for Philosophy named after G. Skovoroda of the National Academy of Science of Ukraine (NASU), a Corresponding Member of NASU, a doctor of Philosophy, professor, public activist.

What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?

As to me, the realization of Ukraine's European choice depends on fruitful professional work in my field; the same I can say about perspectives of scientific collective, where I've been working for all my life, — a collective of Institute of Philosophy of the National Academy of Science. Rejection of European choice means the state of ideological isolation, which we'd been overcoming with great efforts during communistic dictatorship.

For Ukraine as state and for society European choice is an alternative to spiritual provincialism, insufficient production and foreign policy isolation. The possibilities of modernization within the framework of the great Russian super state are exhausted because of many reasons. And in any circumstances Ukraine's joining not to cultural-political and financial-economical Europe, but to competitive Eurasian centre with Russia in its heart will inevitably make Ukraine a half-European province of eastern neighbour.

Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.

Obstacles of Ukraine's participation in processes of European integration partly have objective character: Ukraine has got social-political and economical inheritance, that moves it away from Europe. In spite of fact, that during the last years there is an economical recovery in Ukraine, the situation continues to be disturbing, as this recovery goes along with an outdated technical-economical base. National economy of Ukraine before reconstruction was rather streamlined in some directions, but very ineffective. The leading enterprises of Ukraine belonged to the military-industrial establishment. Today the matter concerns first of all revival of these bearers of science intensive technologies. Ukraine lost strong positions in computer science and related branches; therefore today's projects of development on the Indian model seem to be not quite realistic. There are more and more adherents of agriculture, as well as food and light industry, as the only economic outlook for Ukraine. Meanwhile, Ukraine has a great scientific and technological potential, which realization remains to be the issue of the day. Shortly speaking, today the integration to Europe in market environment is desirable, though it's very risky for uncompetitive Ukrainian economy.

One should add to it an administration system, which in principal has little changed in comparison with soviet times. The President's Administration not only uses old methods of party's formation with their means of communication with circumference, but also gravitates towards organization forms of management of economical and social possesses that peculiar to the old regime. As a result, we have a number of social-political conflicts, which harshly compromised Ukrainian authorities both before its own society, and in opinion of the world community. Ukrainian politicians haven't worked out a clear, at least indisputable, comprehension of national interests, which intensifies destabilization processes and hampers the mutual understanding with the West.

Of course, one can't disregard the pressure from the side of governing circles of Russia, which is interested in keeping of more or less the only post-soviet space under its control (more or less soft), or at least with its decisive political impact.

And finally, integration processes are slowed down by the turn from "temporary economical difficulties", which has an abruptly impoverished part of Ukrainian society. It's necessary to take into consideration, that as a result of incompetent economic policy of its government and superficiality of economic consultations of western advisors of different ranks, Ukraine lost two thirds of its productive potential, and it's more than in the result of destructions of World War II. A considerable part of Ukraine's population is in the state of frustration that is reflected in electorate processes. However one should mention, that in general Ukraine's population keeps common sense and realistic political feeling.

How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in the all-European political, economic and public processes?

Ukraine not only in geographic, but also in cultural meaning is a European country with independent and partly traditional European ties and orientations. Having left beyond the processes of European integration, Ukraine will feel the influence of European events and strive for European contracts most of all (among the post-soviet countries). In the worst case Ukraine will be for Europe a standing source of troubles and instability, a territory, from which the flows of smuggling and illegal migration will go to Europe. I consider this version to be not only wrong, but also not quite real. At best and desirable case Ukraine can return to the role it played in the south of Europe in XVI — XVIII century, and namely a role of mediator between Russian super state and the West, as well as a guide of European influences to the East. One should especially mention about the possibilities of Ukraine's influence on former Transcaucasian and Asian Russians, which are combined with Ukraine by modern pro-European orientations, and aren't separated by the imperial past. If the course of events in Ukraine doesn't require catastrophic character (one can hope for it), than this version will somehow or other come true.

The EU's present expansion and its influence upon Ukraine.

In spite of the first negative consequences in the form of visa restrictions, EU expansion to the East will play more and more positive role for Ukraine. The question is: what is more favourable for Ukraine — neighbourhood with come-at-able, but rather outdated and provincial (in comparison with Western Europe) commodity, financial and cultural-informational market of Central Europe, or not so come-at-able, but a highly developed market? Of course, the answer depends on many factors, but the general preference of a good neighbourhood is doubtless. In fact it means that our neighbours, as EU members, will have more pock nook to promote those processes in Ukraine, which will approach it to European standards of leaving.

The role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realisation of the "European choice of Ukraine".

Poland, Hungary and Slovakia — especially Poland — exerted and will exert a great influence on development of relations between Ukraine and Europe. All three mentioned states have very close regional ties with Ukraine, and peculiar Poland's role lies in unanimity of its history (including the modern history) with Ukrainian one. Poland can be either in the state of historical hostility with Ukraine, if everything remains on the level of national prejudices from the both sides, or on the level of Entente cordiale, "cordial agreement", that describes today the relations between France and Germany. Political interests of Ukraine and Poland are so close, Poland with comparative maturity of its politicians is so clear from the point of few of Ukrainian realism and, vice versa, Ukraine is so clear from the point of few of Polish realism, that there are all possibilities for a Ukrainian-Polish "cordial agreement". The obstacles are mainly prejudices, which are stronger from the Polish side, than from the side of (at least Overdneeper) Ukraine, as well as weakness of cultural ties in comparison with Ukrainian-Russian ones. Cultural rapprochement with Poland must reach the level, that the most of educated Ukrainians could read Polish literature in the original, as they read Russian books. The distance between Polish and Ukrainian languages is not greater, than between Ukrainian and Russian languages, therefore this aim is not unrealistic. Accordingly, Polish culture should occupy a great place on Ukrainian television and so on.

Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?

"To Europe along with Russia" — it's a good slogan, because it allows to pass over an attractive at first glance slogan "Get out of Moscow" (to Europe). The way to Europe doesn't mean, that we should refuse historical contacts with Russia. But it would be a folly to connect Ukraine's steps westwards with Russia's readiness to make the same steps. Russia for many reasons can't move to Europe at the same pace that Ukraine should. Even a final result of movement towards Europe of such a great state, as Russia is, can't be the same, as Ukrainian. Ukraine is immeasurably more compact and has optimal dimensions, and this permits it to be equal to other countries of Europe.

The problem of visas and migration from Ukraine to the EU.

As to problems of visas and migration from Ukraine to EU, one can be sure, that in the near future Ukraine won't enter European area of free transference of goods, capitals and people. It is desirable, that EU policy with regard to Ukraine issued from realistic perspectives of gradual approach of our state and our society to European standards.

What would you advise to change in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine?

I wouldn't advise EU to change the policy concerning Ukraine. I consider, that all the claims to our authorities raised by EU are justified, and I would just like critical reprimands not to turn into satanic image of the "country of evil", that petty bourgeoisie easily accepts.

Present state and perspectives of European business in Ukraine and Ukrainian business in Europe.

I wouldn't like to discuss business affairs, as I'm not a businessman.

What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?

I had to go with my European college throughout Ukraine, from the West to the East. First it seemed to him, that he understood everything: Galychyna and even western Volyn resembled him Europe, but more province, than France or Switzerland. The further we moved to the east, the less civilized seemed everything. But soon appeared Overdneeper regions — a new civilization, with other image, other features, followed by something powerful and incomprehensible.

Ukraine is not a Europe's province. Historically formed civilization of the Russian empire with its Russian-language koine and too ethic (also with regard to ethnic-religious Russian community) municipal western culture. Then were rapid processes in communistic empire, which created a very powerful industrial-technical civilization with a tiny humanitarian brain. XVIII — XX centuries are times of a radical modernization of the Russian empire, the modernization, which Ukraine was involved in. In these processes the empire emulated with European culture, but mainly of military-technical character. It resulted in unique civilization phenomenon, which eventually has some European features, but approaches Europe neither by its values nor by its drawbacks. One need time to get Ukraine to European standards. But both Ukraine and Europe will gain owning to European integration.