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International Program

The Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations

contact:
Grzegorz Gromadzki
ggromadzki@batory.org.pl,
Anna Wróbel
awrobel@batory.org.pl

The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).

Interviews

Interview with Volodymyr Palij

A public figure, entrepreneur, president of the Rivnensky media-club (Rivne, Ukraine)

What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?

For my colleagues and me Ukraine's European choice means change of the mode of thought, transformation of standards and moral values, first of all. During almost a century, our parents had to exist in the environment that implied neither freedom of speech nor liberty of conscience for a human being. Unfortunately, after 1991 the process of replacement of tendencies has slowed down in Ukraine. No statements declaring reforming of the economy, unfortunately, are being sustained by real steps in the society. As in regions, so in centre, the authorities rather often live apart from the people, and they take decisions which are advantageous for not the whole society but for certain part of the financial-political elite. We are trying to get over this mode of thought that implies priority of an official's interests over interests of the state, but the process will last for a long time. Of course, it could have been accelerated if people in Ukraine had lived a degree better. I mean Ukrainian families' incomings, their capacity to pay for their children's education, and the opportunity to acquire all the information necessary for their own education. If one has an income that allows him to use these opportunities, he feels free, he starts to decide between the variants suggested by the authorities and his own wishes. Exactly then real social values spring up, in contrast to those values that can with certainty be called "an ideology of poverty". I think that Ukraine's European choice should be realised in aspiration to bring real changes to better in ordinary people's lives; attainment of not only freedom of thought, but freedom of actions; the Constitution should stop its being a mere declaration, and double standards in policy, economy and social life should disappear completely.

Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.

Strangely enough, but the main obstruction to Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration is Ukraine itself. At that, our country's citizens are energetically trying to integrate into the European Community on their own. Thousands of the Ukrainians work in countries of the European Community both legally and illegally. I think they are motivated by not only the wish to earn their living: certain part of the society tries to solve those problems the country has been being unable to solve during the years of independence. I am acquainted with some Ukrainians who have been working in Italy and Portugal for several years. They are well-educated professionals, family men, experienced ex-top-managers at large enterprises, but they work in a services sector or as maintenance workers abroad. These people are satisfied with their salary they could not earn in Ukraine, but discontented at their social status. If my acquaintances had had chances to earn the same money in Ukraine, and in addition enjoy all the liberties specified in the Constitution of Ukraine, they would have been full members of the territorial community, and participated in the decision-making concerning their own city and state. If most Ukrainians were of the kind, we would be able to integrate into the European Community without any delays.

However, today the number of the destitute is increasing, and the rich know well how to multiply their wealth without participation of the society. Middle class composed of the people with the incomes which allow them to feel free, is not growing. I think that the problem cannot be solved by Ukraine on its own. The European Community has to understand that without financial support given by social institutions, without investment of substantial amounts of money into Ukraine's economy, assigned for development of medium and minor business and farming, the European Union will not have a full-fledged partner to work in cooperation with. Because if even Europe gives to the Ukrainians micro-credits for establishing of their own enterprises, via Ukrainian banks, it is not insured from the Ukrainian officials' self-will [wilfulness]: they are paid at the level of 30 Euro and seek for every opportunity to fill up their family budget. This is not a theory, such things my fellow citizens and I face every day. We should admit honestly that corruption in Ukraine can be found [is common] not only in government bodies. You will neither receive any quality medical treatment without a bribe nor be able to provide quality education for your children. After all, if you have money and you are ready to pay for everything you need, this does not mean that the person who could help you in solving of your problem has it. That is why I distinguish two levels of reasons keeping us from fast integration into the European Community. The first is the Ukrainians' consciousness, contaminated with illnesses lasting from the Soviet times; the second is the absence of incentives on regional levels (in addition to the opportunity of receiving profits from bribes) to regional elite's participation in management of macro- and microeconomic development processes in a region.

How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in the all-European political, economic and public processes?

Ukraine's integration into the European Community will introduce to the last some moments which should be taken into consideration. In relations with Europe Ukraine should be regarded not as a consumer but as an active participant of the integration process. The world is trying to unite to solve political, economic, social problems. If the process of solving of economic and social questions is stirred up in Ukraine, and this is connected with the process of integration into Europe, this factor, in its turn, will have positive influence upon irreversible development of democracy in the state.

I am sure that Ukraine is able to bring a lot for the common good of Europe, especially in foodstuff market (agricultural ecologically clean production). If Europe invests into development of Ukrainian farming, in return for this it will receive high quality natural foodstuff and convenience foods. For the present, it seems that Ukraine is consuming those goods from Europe which partially lost their value. Such categories of goods need new markets, where they could be sold better. Today Ukraine together with other countries of the post-Soviet space cleared their markets for such goods (from hardware to foodstuff). But Ukraine itself is a country that able to make products having call in Europe. Western investors and managers have to understand this, as well as they should obtain admittance to information on Ukrainian market and Ukrainian manufacturers' potentialities.

There is also another aspect. If Ukraine becomes a full member of the EU, it will simultaneously form a kind of a buffer between Europe and Asian countries. For today, a few cases when natives of Asian countries made their migration ways through the territory of Ukraine, have taken place. It is possible that certain criminal groups can make use of this opportunity, too. In this case, Ukraine cannot settle numerous problems concerning security of both our country and European countries, on its own. In fact, it is customary to help one's own neighbours. If your neighbour is steady on his legs, if you can communicate with him on equal terms, — together with him you will be able to withstand any danger, not to mention that any work is easier to start when it is being started together.

The EU's present expansion and its influence upon Ukraine.

To my mind, the EU's present enlargement influences the situation in Ukraine greatly; especially this concerns Poland and Hungary's joining to the Union. Closing of the western borders or intensified control of them has negative consequences for people: established business and social relations (not to mention the relations between neighbouring countries' communities and individuals) are being partially lost. On the other hand, a neighbours' example always induces one to actions that are more trenchant. I expect that in the process of Poland and Hungary's integration into the EU, Ukraine will advance more actively to create proper conditions for accommodating itself to the European Community. After all, in one way or another, these processes are developing on the level of intergovernmental relations and the Ukrainians' public conscience.

The role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia) in realisation of the "European choice of Ukraine".

Judging from the international policy Ukraine has been realising lately, the so-called "multivectorness" is being replaced by clear comprehension of necessity of Ukraine's integration into concrete geopolitical circumstances [sphere, habitat]. I consider this as the result of those transformations the EU has been experiencing last years. The neighbours' perspective has played not the least part in this: they not only made their choice in favour of the united Europe but have already done certain part of the way leading to creation of the conditions for appropriate [due] formalisation of their choice. For Ukraine, this implies that its own integration process as regards Europe is to be stirred up a lot soon. Forming of public opinion and attitude of the community within the country towards these circumstances will play an important role: the post-Soviet standards in the citizens' consciousness have to be replaced by distinct realisation of the fact that there can be no return to the old world.

A new generation of the Ukrainians living in an independent state must change not only state attributes but also conscience of millions of citizens. Only our active cooperation with the European Community makes this process possible: when by the example of the neighbouring Western countries the citizens of Ukraine will see real changes in lives of ordinary people in Poland, Slovakia and Hungary.

Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?

There is no doubt that Russia has its own interest as regards Ukraine. Of course, up to the present moment this interest has been being a "stumbling block" in the relations between Ukraine and Russia, as well as between Ukraine and the European Union. I think that Europe should take into account Russia's not only geopolitical but also historic influence upon Ukraine. It is impossible to regard the process of Ukraine's integration into the EU without taking into consideration Russia's interest. I think that the existing in Ukraine polarity of public thought concerning these processes should not be cast aside. Especially for some time past, when Ukraine experienced a few crises and partially lowered its rating in the international relations with the EU and the USA, public opinion of the ordinary Ukrainians tended to position itself in complete accordance with the situation: the pressure exerted from one direction gives grounds for inclining to another side.

The problem of visas and migration from Ukraine to the EU.

As I have already said, the Ukrainians have close social and economic contacts with the Poles, the Slovaks and other nations who are (or will be in the nearest future) members of the European Community. This is one of the special terms in the questions concerning the EU's migration policy towards Ukraine. Europe should not be a loving mother for some and a severe stepmother for others, as today the conception of Europe denotes more and more not only a geopolitical idea but certain standard of living, certain life values, in public conscience. If the boundary between the "European" world and "the rest of the countries" is too harsh, the situation will resemble the period of a cold war, when the world split into two camps: "good" and "bad" boys, more and more. Migration policy of the EU, as well as migration policy of Ukraine or any other country, has to rest upon creating of safe conditions for their citizens' lives, above all. Safety of life has to become a corner stone in relations between countries. Dissemination of such an approach to forming of migration and visa policy, realised through mass media within Ukraine, would contribute to forming of positive public opinion of the Ukrainians, even if control of crossing of the borders at the West of Ukraine is strengthened.

What would you advise to change in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine?

I think, now the EU is concerned with its own image on Ukraine's territory not so much. The impression of this is given most of all by observing of the domestic mass media's reaction to the processes of Ukraine's European integration. It reflects either Ukraine's official position or a certain medium's editorial (or other) policy. The elements of interactivity (when ordinary citizens of both the EU and Ukraine could exchange their opinions concerning processes of integration, in public), are practically absent here. Especially critical the problem is as regards regional mass media and non-profit organizations having limited opportunities of bilateral contacts with identical structures in countries of the EU. This gives grounds to say that both parts should use means of the so-called "public diplomacy" more energetically, thus forming public opinion as regards integration processes. For that matter, the first step should be taken by exactly the European Union.

European business in Ukraine and Ukrainian business in Europe: the present state and the perspectives.

Let me remind once again that until minor and medium business in Ukraine feels steady support on the part of Western investors, it will not obtain the level of independence, which would allow it, in its turn, to feel freer and to act with confidence. There is a need for real ways and guarantees of that the Ukrainian businessmen will have all the necessary conditions for development of their own business, provided by the state. Reforming of the Ukrainian economy must be immediate and effectual. This is the only way for Ukrainian business to become integrated into the European one. Yet so far, we have to observe how Ukraine is being filled with European goods which lost their popularity there. I admit that this happens not without participation of Ukrainian businessmen, but the situation has to be settled by putting of regulative functions into force — on the part of not only our state but also the EU's country-members and candidates. Instead, Ukraine is not presented by its product in Europe, even if it is able to compete with European analogues. I consider that in addition to market laws, the political and economic ambitions which have sprung up recently both in Ukraine and in the EU, are in force.

How much do you personally cooperate with the partners representing the EU and its candidate countries (in your professional field)?

From the standpoint of the region that I am representing, I confirm once again that despite desirability of cooperation with European countries, there exists a problem of lack of information as regards a will for such cooperation shown by the other part. This happens because of certain monopolisation of international relations on both the state level and the level of various funds and structures that have been busying themselves with these relations starting from the times when Ukraine obtained its independence. Therefore, we try to establish communication with our colleagues from the neighbouring countries on our own, but afterwards the matters do not go beyond mere contacts. There still exists a need for our state's practical steps in creation of conditions for more open communication between nations, on the level of social institutions, business structures, and non-governmental organisations.

What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?

Undoubtedly, the Ukrainians identify themselves with Europe. Most of my fellow citizens know the facts when Ukraine influenced its neighbours' culture, and that happened on both political and social levels (art, philosophy, religion). At the same time, we realise that the culture of any nation is original and unique. Peoples from single countries can unite into the European Community only thanks to openness of their societies. In addition to economic, political and other factors inducing countries to integration, there also exists people's objective will to live in peace and harmony. In this sense, Ukraine will always aspire after integration processes to be safe and have reliable partners.

Copyright © Fundacja Batorego