Fundacja im. Stefana Batorego

International Program

The Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations

contact:
Grzegorz Gromadzki
ggromadzki@batory.org.pl,
Anna Wróbel
awrobel@batory.org.pl

The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).

Interviews

Interview with Oleksandr Moroz, MP

Leader of Socialist Party of Ukraine and Socialist faction in the Supreme Rada

What means "Ukraine's European choice" for you?

First of all, European choice is an attainment in Ukraine of European standards of living typical for developed, civilized countries with democratic principals of public administration, social guarantees and protection of human rights and freedoms, and maturity of structures of civil society.

European choice — is not a vector of foreign-policy orientation, but an essence of state's internal policy.

Reasons and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.

Totalitarian system of power, which has formed in our country, is both a reason and obstacle.

European Union is not only the common currency and open borders. It is, first of all, rich democracy traditions, high level of development, and above all — stability and predictability of economy, population's social protection, opportunities of harmonious development of a personality, absence of double standards, responsibility of authority before its people, political stability, stability of legislative base, absence of administrative methods of economy's regulation, clear and weighted foreign policy of all EU members and so on. Weak and unpredictable states like Ukraine can't enter this Union. To achieve the level of development of European leaders, Ukraine needs not less than 10 years on condition that power system will change in the nearest one or two years. This is on the one hand.

On the other hand, top management of the state hasn't still defined a clear direction of Ukraine's foreign policy. Different politicians may express their opinion concerning this vector, but an official is the president's one. Of course, it puts certain obligations on the head of state and involves his conventional responsibility before the world community for observance of the chosen course. But obligations and responsibility are what our president is afraid most of all. The dimness of foreign policy reference points is more favourable for him. For him they are rather a trump card in negotiations with leaders of other countries: in the west we "integrate" with the West, in the east — with the East. Therefore for ten years the president has been blocking up an adoption of Foundations of internal and foreign policy of Ukraine, stipulated by the Constitution; and both membership in EU and membership in Eurasian Economic Unity and other represent themselves as a chosen course. It conforms again the necessity of changing of the power system in Ukraine. Having solved this problem, our country will be able to start developing towards classic democracy.

It's also necessary to operate with categories more clearly. "A choice" — here should be absolute clarity: we are for the choice. "Integration" — has its borders, one shouldn't identify it with EU, as it is a deep form, it means new peculiarities of state system and principally different economical dependences. It is unnecessarily to say, that Ukraine isn't ready for them. And it's difficult to say whether EU is ready, even when the development of our state is on EU level. Do the both subjects need it? Nobody can give clear answer. That's why we should speak (and long for) about the integration as a search of mechanisms and creation of conditions for broad cooperation.

What is, in your opinion, the contribution of your country in Europe's future; and what is Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in European political, economical and social processes?

Ukraine must strengthen Europe's positions in the world community, having become its full and equal in rights member. Our country can come out with an initiative of working out of Conception of security and cooperation in the world. The latest events have shown, that the necessity of such conception is imminent, and we are able to undertake this mission.

Today's EU expansion and its influence on Ukraine.

Joining of EU of the nearest Ukraine's neighbours, the partners in former socialist camp must make authority of our state think about accuracy of reforms, which it carries out. It was mentioned above, that in contrast to Poland, Hungary and the Baltic countries Ukraine is too far from European standards. Therefore the power will be compelled differently influence on structural reorganization of economy, export-import policy, introduction of modern technologies, and promote development of civilized market. Administration, at which clans' interests are preferred to the interests of society, inevitably will lead Ukraine to the state of a colony. Therefore a clear alternative goes on the foreground: integration or colonial position, and following from this — democracy or criminal dictatorship.

The role of neighbouring countries, which soon must become EU members (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realization of "Ukraine's European choice".

EU have already quite unambiguously let know that it doesn't see Ukraine not only in its membership, but also among the countries with market economy. Nobody will do for us, what we must do on our own. And if internal and foreign policy of Ukraine remains so irrational, unscrupulous and uncertain, than efforts of any states in adjustment of Ukraine's contacts with European structures will be futile. Besides, bilateral relations with the specified countries now will be appreciably corrected by general EU conditions that at the initial stage can bring about reduction of trade-economic relations. In due course everything will depend on situation in Ukraine.

An effective way of Ukraine towards European structures: independently or along with Russia?

It is the far-fetched statement of a question. European integration doesn't excludes, but stimulates intensification of economical cooperation with all countries, and first of all with Russia. Everything depends on what system of power we will have. Afterwards, as a main factor, will influence Russia's system of power. But this is a problem of another kind, it's mainly Russia's problem that indirectly depends on the situation in Ukraine. Easier speaking, democratisation of social life in Ukraine, overcoming of corruption as a derivative from administration will cause in Russia adequate changes. We talk about relative things, because progressive transformations in Russia will, probably, take place sooner. They will affect the state of affairs in Ukraine, especially as the influence of Russian capital on use of the main means of production swiftly increases in Ukraine. And this is one of the key factors of influence.

The problems of visas and migration from Ukraine to EU.

We should be realists: while the majority of Ukraine's population will lead a beggarly life, the problem of migration (first of all, illegal) to developed European countries is unlikely to be solved.

What would you advise to change in the policy of EU concerning Ukraine?

Not to isolate, but influence on democratisation of all sides of life in Ukraine. At the same time use such authoritative institutions as PACE, OSCE and other. Neighbourhood with a corrupt and unpredictable state is a constant threat for EU well-being.

Today's state and outlook of European business in Ukraine, and Ukrainian business in EU.

Economical and political situation in Ukraine isn't favourable for inflow of foreign investments. Corruption, vulnerability investors' rights, dependence of Ukrainian economy on mercantile administration and many other factors raise riskiness of investment, which even cheap labour force cannot compensate. Prospects can appear only when this situation will change. As to Ukrainian business in Europe, it practically is not present there: our businessmen prefer transferring money to offshore.

Common and differences between Ukraine and "western culture". Is Ukraine a part of the Western World?

The common is that in Ukraine, and in the West, and in the East live people, who have the right to ordinary human happiness, confidence in the future, security and care of the state. The difference is that in the West and in some eastern countries people have it already, and try to keep it and increase, while in our country people only struggle for their rights.

As to the second part of a question, I wouldn't narrow it up to geographical frameworks of belonging to any state. Ukraine is a part of the world. Certainly, the mentality and traditions of Ukraine are far from eastern, but they are not identical to western ones. Each state has its own features and morals, realization of internal and foreign policy, as well as business dealing, etc. Under conditions of globalisation, when along with foreign capital in any country penetrate sights of the proprietor of this capital, all national features are exposed to external impact. Sometimes it is salutary; sometimes it causes resistance. It is necessary to be ready for both variants, keeping everything valuable, that is a distinctive feature of Ukraine. Both the West, and the East are components of the world community. They do not need to be opposed to each other. They should supplement each other harmoniously. Probably, Ukraine will have the leading role in harmonization of cultures, traditions, search of balance between objective processes of globalisation and need to keep originality of the countries.