Fundacja im. Stefana Batorego

International Program

The Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations

contact:
Grzegorz Gromadzki
ggromadzki@batory.org.pl,
Anna Wróbel
awrobel@batory.org.pl

The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).

Interviews

Interview with Ivan Kuras

Academician of National Academy of Sciences (NAS) of Ukraine, Director of Institute for Political and Ethno-National Studies of NAS of Ukraine, MP, former deputy premier-minister of Ukraine.

What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?

The idea of "Ukraine's European choice" has several dimensions:

A) The political one. During the first post-Soviet decade Ukraine's foreign policy was following the direction of "multi-vectorness". It was a period when we determined our priorities and searched for our own place in the system of international relations. Today we have found our position, and the course toward European integration has been declared on the state level.

B) The legal one. One of Europe's most significant achievements is the system of social relations based on priority of the Law. By stating its wish to integrate into Europe, Ukraine pledged to bring its legislative base to conformity with the European one. That is, with such a system that has proved its effectiveness, — the system appreciated by the Ukrainian society as the one corresponding to its interests and aspirations.

C) The economic one. A stable and powerful economy is new Europe's key feature. Therefore, increasing of power of our own economy, manufacturing of competitive product, creation of favourable conditions for inflow of European investments is one of the pre-conditions of Ukraine's European integration. Today we are following the right way, Ukraine's economic indices are being improved, and our task is to make this process irreversible, as we wish to become a full-fledged partner of the united Europe, not a donor of rich countries.

D) The social one. Democracy, human rights and freedom of speech — these values common for European society are to be shared by Ukraine in full. Exactly the progress in approaching to these characteristics must become an indicator of seriousness of Ukraine's intentions to fill its "European choice" with real content.

Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in processes of European integration.

Factors impeding Ukraine's participation in processes of European integration can be observed as on Ukraine's so on Europe's parts.

Ukraine has still been being captured by inertia; certain part of the society and the elites have still been taking the Western world in the spirit of Soviet propaganda. Besides, transitional processes have been being lingered: real changes in our economic, political, public life go with much more difficulties than it seemed when Ukraine had obtained its independence. On the other hand, our European partners not always understand Ukraine's specific character. They possess their own vision of Ukraine as a partner. Sometimes this vision coincides with the Ukrainian one, but differences arise in the question when Ukraine will achieve correspondence with this vision. Europe often fails to take account of the fact that at present our country has to attain those things Europe itself has been developing during thousands of years, in an increased tempo.

There is also a number of lesser impediments caused by slowness of bureaucratic machines, as well as certain political moments (not proven accusations of Ukraine and its president of an approval of "Kolchugas" supply to Iraq were an illustrative example of this). But I would characterise these moments as secondary ones.

The main point is that Ukraine stated its Eurointegration course unambiguously, though the country has not understood the whole technology of the process yet, while Europe does not hasten to start up the integration "mechanism", not having determined Ukraine's perspectives.

How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in all-European political, economic and public processes?

It would be very naive to expect that Ukraine's drawing in processes of European integration would cause qualitative changes in the European Community's life. We in Ukraine are aware of the fact that the present state of affairs in our country could rather bring problems to Europe than offer any settlement for them. However, if we try to judge not from the positions of the present state of affairs but from the standpoint of strategic thought, we should take into consideration that the factor of Ukraine will be of great importance for the future of Europe anyway. If Ukraine is not left outside the borders of a "political Europe", then the very fact of this will contribute to enlargement of a stability and democracy zone in the world. Otherwise we will have the chance to talk about an increase of risks for both our state and the whole continent.

Ukraine's contribution to the future of Europe is determined by the country's potential: its human, economic, scientific resources, its experience in keeping of international peace etc. After all, Ukraine in the status of a full-fledged European state will make restoration of the "Empire of Evil" on the post-Soviet space impossible; it will contribute to establishment of civilised relations between the EU and Russia, as well as other countries on the post-Soviet space.

The EU's present enlargement and its influence upon Ukraine.

The EU's movement in the eastern direction is a positive phenomenon, on the whole. Ukraine welcomes this process. At the same time, the present enlargement is an alarming signal for our country. We have missed the train on which ten countries of the Central-Eastern Europe left. The result is well-known: today officials of the European Commission, other institutions of united Europe, as well as senior representatives of the EU country-members avoid any discussions about concrete terms of Ukraine's joining to the EU. And the debates on "borders of Europe" initiated by the head of the European Commission Romano Prodi, in fact, call into question perspectives of Ukraine's European choice on the whole. I consider both the status of a "neighbouring country" offered to Ukraine by the EU and the slogan "everything but institutions" in relations with those countries which are left outside the boundary of the renewed European Union, in the context of the problem of "borders of Europe".

At the same time, let me express an opposite opinion: we will have an opportunity to observe the adaptation of post-Social and post-Soviet countries to new circumstances. Therefore, when it is our time to join Europe institutionally (we consider our country to be a European one in all other aspects), we will be able to use their experience and not to repeat their mistakes.

Role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia) in realisation of Ukraine's European choice.

The countries mentioned above know and understand Ukraine better than "the Old Europe" does. On the other hand, we also are close to them, we have a number of similar problems. Judging from this, I hope that they will form a bridge that will bring Ukraine closer to Europe.

In Ukraine one can often hear about the necessity of forming of a "pro-Ukrainian" lobby in Europe. Despite the conditional character of the definition, the neighbouring countries will most probably become lobbyists of Ukraine's European choice. It is principally important for them to have a country-partner, not an element of a "sanitary border", on their frontiers [borders]. Poland's position is an indicative one: the country is consistently emphasising that it will support Ukraine's European course. There were Poles who advanced propositions concerning the EU's policy as regards Ukraine, a few months ago. The perspective of Ukraine's membership in the EU put in these propositions is not only a mere friendly step as regards a neighbouring state. These are exactly the theses our state would like to be the basis of the EU's policy concerning Ukraine.

Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?

Russia is one of Ukraine's strategic partners. Correspondingly, coming from the spirit of partnership, we have to take into account this country's opinion, especially when we are taking the steps that will have effect on its position in the international scene, too. Ukraine's potential entering the EU and NATO is exactly a step of this kind. Nevertheless, while taking its steps Ukraine must be guided by its own interests, first of all, and follow the course that was determined in Kyiv, not in Moscow. In our turn, we also can expect from Russia maximum care about the interests taken by its strategic partner, — and Ukraine is Moscow's strategic partner, too.

The slogan "To Europe — together with Russia" seems to me not a definition of the only possible way, but a desirable variant of development of events, the final goal of which I would formulate as "In Europe — together with Russia".

Problems of visas and migration from Ukraine to the EU.

The present hard economic situation in Ukraine forced hundreds of thousands of our fellow-citizens abroad: they work in Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland and some other countries. As a rule, they are employed at jobs, which do not correspond with their level of education and qualification. Their status is not determined in most cases. This uncertainty and lack of information about the state of affairs result in absence of any legal protection of labour migrants. At this background, any information about unlawful deeds of the Ukrainians in countries of Europe gives a distorted impression about Ukraine and its citizens.

Our country does a lot to create such conditions under which the Ukrainians would not have to seek for jobs abroad. However, these conditions will not be created soon. Therefore, the question of legal protection of the Ukrainians abroad is a burning one. Today we have signed a corresponding agreement with Portugal, an analogous agreement between Ukraine and Spain is being prepared now. I personally consider this way to be civilised, optimal and corresponding with all parties' interests.

As regards establishing of a visa regime by new members of the EU, this step has been taken for security reasons — Europe is afraid of an inflow of illegal migrants. On the other hand, establishing of a visa regime with such countries as Bulgaria and Slovakia demonstrated all its inconvenience. The idea of asymmetry has originated from this experience. Thus, after establishing of a visa regime by Poland and Hungary, Ukraine will not establish visas for these countries' citizens. In their turn, visas for the Ukrainians will be either maximum cheap or free. I think this is an optimal variant. It takes into account both security reasons and aspirations of the citizens on both sides of the border to have wider opportunities for cooperation, travelling etc. To my opinion, such a scheme could be established as regards other countries, in the future.

What would you advise to change in the EU's policy towards Ukraine?

I would like to obtain a clear vision of Ukraine's perspective in acquiring of a status of the EU's associated country, first, with the country's future joining to the Community. To my opinion, the European Union possesses no strategy of relations with Ukraine at all. This can be testified, for example, by Ukraine's numbering among the "circle of friends" together with Belarus (that has never stated its wish to become a member of the EU) and African countries.

The essential point is that in case the EU started to work out such a strategy, Ukraine's position should be taken into account, too. If a clear strategy and definiteness of a purpose of cooperation are present, this will permit to escape the negative moments in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine which take place now. The matter concerns, in particular, dependence on variations of political situation, on personal factor etc.

Present state and perspectives of European business in Ukraine and Ukrainian business in Europe.

Today European business in Ukraine is suffering from elements of non-economic influence and imperfection of our tax legislation; Ukrainian business in Europe — from unequal conditions of competition. Besides, there is a number of phobias. The Europeans are afraid to enter Ukrainian market owing to our political instability, imperfection of our legislation and corruption. The Ukrainians are slow in entering of European markets on account of their diffidence about ability to manufacture the product that would be not worse than that of their Western competitors. Motives of both parties are dubious and their fears exaggerated.

It is difficult to speak about remote perspectives, but in the nearest future the decisive steps should be: for Ukrainian business — recognition of Ukraine as a country with market economy, what will permit to enter the European markets with more confidence and to avoid a number of anti-dumping investigations; for European business — creation of a favourable investment climate in Ukraine, improvement of our legislation, overcoming of bureaucratic self-willfulness and corruption.

What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?

When we are speaking about the Western culture, we mean culture of social relations, supremacy of law, freedom of speech, an idea of a human being as the highest value, first of all. As the things turned out historically, Ukraine had constantly been being pushed in the opposite direction. Today we have stepped onto the way that Europe follows, again. This way is common for both Europe and Ukraine. Yes, we are being behind, but both we and those who are going ahead have the same ultimate aim. In view of that, Ukraine is a European country like any other country of Europe.

On the other hand, Ukraine possesses its own unique and self-sufficient culture that numbers more than a thousand years. This culture is based on Orthodox Christianity and age-old traditions of the Ukrainian people. And the "Western world" as a reference point of development looks so attractive just owing to the fact that in this community of states and nations the slogan "unity in variety" is being realised in practice. Creation of common institutions, opening of borders, intensification of international contacts contribute to enrichment of cultures but do not produce the effect of a "melting pot": every European nation keeps its own identity. Therefore, Ukraine is a part of Europe in a cultural, civilisation sense. The part that is full of will to join the processes of European cultural interdevelopment and able to make its contribution to cultural enrichment of Europe in general and its every nation in particular.