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International ProgramThe Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations |
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The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID). |
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Interview with S. B. GavryshA head of faction "Democratic initiatives" of the Supreme Rada of Ukraine What means "Ukraine's European choice" for you?It's my natural choice, the choice of a genetic European. European choice is self-determination of many Ukrainians. Today the main task of the government is to make it a joint, consensus position for the whole Ukrainian nation. For me European choice means that standards of living, standards of human rights, which are democracy standards, are to become the highest values of all citizens of Ukraine. I am deeply convinced, that to provide a normal development of the state, Ukraine extremely needs compromises worked out through centuries, which became general standards of development and progress. Ukraine needs them to change the sense of relations between the state and a personality, when the personality will become the highest value not only in the Constitution, but also in everyday life. Reasons and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.The main reason is, that principals of development of Ukraine and Ukrainian political nation are just being formed now. Unlike its western neighbours that have already received the invitation and become members of EU, we can't rely on our own state-forming and genetic-national evolution. Our western neighbours had rather heavy historical experience and understood, that this is the main choice for them, having determined it as far back as in early 90-s of the previous century. As to us, Ukrainians, we unexpectedly started creating our own history in CIS area, and didn't manage to unite our actions concerning this choice in the first years of Ukrainian independence. Reforms, taking place in Ukraine, don't have quite clear strategic and politically responsible guarantee. Ukraine's uncertainty in advancement to future confirms the conception of its multi-vectorial foreign policy. And just in the last years, owing to development of civil society, the idea of European choice got more adherents. Nevertheless, we haven't created a program yet, which would allow us include this idea in the national program of development. Our country is still between two geopolitical magnets — Russia and Asia, and Europe. And this inclination to one side and other weakens Ukraine's European choice that remains to be a selection of mottos, but not a real strategic course of advancement to European environment. Today we don't make any efforts, first of all, in harmonization of Ukrainian legal sphere with European one, that will give a powerful intensive to development of economy and institutional aspects of the society, power etc. Secondly, in a real practice we don't democratise bureaucratic model of development, which has a tendency towards shadow form of existence with high level of corruptibility. And thirdly, we don't provide civil society for philosophy of European choice. Thus, this weakens Ukraine's positions in advancement towards European community and doesn't give possibility to realize, that working on the national program on development, raising national standards of living in all aspects, starting with democracy and finishing with problems of economy and social standards of Ukrainians' existence, we don't advance to Europe. What is, in your opinion, the contribution of your country in Europe's future; and what is Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in European political, economical and social processes?Ukraine is a very important state for Europe, as having a certain geopolitical position, enormous natural and human resources, it can considerably influence on EU policy. On the other hand, it will become possible just when standards of Ukraine's development are essentially changed in progress direction. During these years Ukraine undoubtedly have been forming as a regional leader (it was unsuccessful though). Having rather active position in the east of European continent, Ukraine can play a crucial role as a heavy mediator between Europe and Eurasia. I think, that its geographic position that allows quickly renew the "silk way" even to China, is a source of serious economical prospects. The matter concerns also effective energy-transport passages. I believe, that Ukraine can become an important security factor for Europe — in particular in geopolitical aspect, taking into consideration, that it has northern borders with states, which will never join EU. And thus it can provide a maximally effective position of EU from the standpoint of European community's security of development, but also world, global security on the whole. I'm also sure, that Ukraine will make a considerable contribution with its special resources that now get incentive for their development. Firstly, it's agricultural sphere; and a sphere connected with new technologies in the field of aircraft construction and space. It is very desirable for Europe to cooperate with Ukraine, on conditions that standards of this cooperation will respond to standards of modern European development, i.e. bear high-tech character. Ukraine's integration in Europe will be the evidence, that Europe gets serious advantages in world competition. I'd like to mention, that thoughts like this are far from complete; they are connected with understanding, that this is possible if we appreciably change political, social-economical and social situation in Ukraine, and make it respond to Europe's standards of living. Today's EU expansion and its influence on Ukraine.This is a global problem for Ukraine. This EU expansion is both positive and negative. The positive feature is, that it stimulates Ukraine to take decisions concerning harmonization of its interests with EU, and acceptance of the only national choice -joining EU. And this choice can't remain just a political declaration. It is to become a practice of everyday state and economical life. The positive is, that Ukraine is offered a keen competition, and though it requires extraordinary and special efforts, it allows quickly make new high-tech infrastructures, which raise standards of living in Ukraine. In other words, there is an adaptation of all living systems to present-day European standards. The positive is also, that Ukraine will get more and more high-tech European investment. Europe will constantly somehow or other influence on any Ukrainian position in search of consolidation of efforts to overcome mutual problems, in search of division of labour and ware markets, and, of course, in search of the model of common security. The latter is the most important today for relations between Europe and Ukraine, because joint security system provides rather high effective standard of a stable evolution of development. Especially as Ukraine has quite highly capacious market, able to absorb a considerable part of European production. And it would be desirable these relations to be rather fair, in order that Ukrainians could be present on highly structural European markets, and were pressed by antidumping measures on the part of EU as less as possible. The negative is, that introduction of Schengen regime can essentially affect humanitarian exchange, having changed the volume of so-called "democratic investment" connected with receiving of European life experience by Ukrainians located in Europe. This will decrease effectiveness of introduction of humanitarian values in Ukraine, and cause diminution of activity in economy, social projects etc. The negative is also, that Ukraine will be put into difficulties, and in this respect (like the matter, that met an obstacle, has ability either to pass it, that is impossible in the given situation, or get back) it can drift today towards Russia or Asia. And this means, that we'll go back to our past, but not advance. Therefore I'm sure, that EU should adopt an individual program of Ukraine's adaptation to EU, and create some transition corridor, having got over which Ukraine will become an associated member of this organization. It should be the individual program with requirements to Ukraine concerning fulfilment of its responsibilities, called to ensure advancement to European standards of democracy and economical development. On the other hand, equal terms of cooperation with EU are to be guaranteed: subdued Schengen regime with so-called "brief" visas, which one will be able to get without burdensome bureaucratic procedures; enlarged possibilities to get investment; rendering of fair preferences on its markets, which would satisfied both parties. One can cite other ten very important terms that concern both humanitarian, social, economical, and political or military problems. The role of neighbouring countries, which soon must become EU members (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realization of "Ukraine's European choice".I believe, that our western neighbours, which recently were sister nations in the only social-economical and political life, will create for Ukraine highest possible conditions for cooperation, and pass us their experience of joining EU. I respect Poland's position, that announced itself an attorney of Ukraine in EU, and I hope, that this role will undertake Bulgaria, Hungary and Romania (after they surmount their own difficulties). I am convinced, that orientation to reach our neighbours will give Ukraine effective opportunities to reorganize our economy, carry out administrative-territorial reform and other structural reforms that will promote effectiveness of our development. That's why I regard our closest neighbours as a bridge or doors that Ukraine will open entering EU. It's very important, because these neighbours have got quite clear to us market, and there are traditional relations and traditional cooperation between us. Taking into consideration, that it will be difficult for neighbours to compete with high-tech EU states, we can expect their dimensioned cooperation with Ukraine. And it will be a certain formula of success of our state in advancement towards EU. An effective way of Ukraine towards European structures: independently or along with Russia?Ukraine should independently take decisions concerning its national policy, its national choice, and realize its sovereignty in its own position. The national program of development created in accordance with European standards, should become the basis of EU entering. And when we become a democratic country with highly effective economy, we will be desirable for EU. In my opinion, today, when Ukraine doesn't have appropriate material resources, we can't make ourselves an assignment to join EU, for instance, in the year 2010. This means, that any plans or assumptions, that we can join EU along with some other country, are groundless. I consider, that Russia will never join EU, as it is rather powerful and all-sufficient state, able to compete on the world market. EU is not only a club that sets club interests as an object. It is an alliance, created to participate in division of products of labour and manpower. It is very important for us to be a member of this alliance. It's clear, that European markets have high-tech and highly structural assets and character, and participation in them constantly stimulates development and progress. Ukraine hasn't another choice, but do everything possible, in order that its development has European character, and the problem of EU entering didn't become the problem of Ukraine's requirements and EU propositions, but a logic completion of a certain stage of Ukrainian history. One wished it to be the shortest one. What are the interests of Ukrainian business in EU countries?I think, that the main interests are exactly in EU. This is investment, and EU investment is not just EURO money, but also high technologies and a new stage of Ukraine's development. While today we compete on the world market with the Third World countries — as corrupted and complicated from the standpoint of primary half-finished products' production, Europe sells results of intelligence — the most expensive and the most effective services. Selling Europe for little money our slabs, metal-roll etc. we get from there high-tech products, which become objects of existence of domestic Ukrainian market. It's important to emphasize, that economic relations of domestic business with EU make impossible shadow schemes and corruption, and allow increase public capital, directing it to social projects of the state. In other words, it's an effective process that enables quickly increase state budget due to enlargement of tax base due to removing a great amount of money from shadow sector, as Europe isn't going to cooperate with a country with a high level of shadow economy. And the last, it's a school of competition, ability not only to hold market, but to protect it, ability to carry on a civilized dialogue at this market, to come to an agreement, and thus have a highly effective foreign trade. I consider this choice for Ukrainian business to be the most important. What would you advise to change in the policy of EU concerning Ukraine?I'd advise to decline any discrimination, create an individual program of relations with Ukraine, pay Ukraine debts for nuclear weapon with investment, close Chernobyl nuclear power plant; support amicable development of present-day Europe and thus promote its effective democratic progress. The problems of visas and migration.We've mentioned brief visas above. As to emigration and migration problems — they are very important, and I think, that on EU-Ukraine level a corresponding convention (ratified by the Supreme Rada) is to be signed. This convention should be about providing of appropriate guarantees in EU countries; protection of those, who are forced emigrants and located there illegally; honest and fair treatment of them; and rendering all possibilities, in order that Ukrainians could freely move throughout Europe, which also belongs to Ukraine. Common and differences between Ukraine and "western culture". Is Ukraine a part of the Western World?Ukrainians belong to the oldest European nationalitiesd. And not only Ukrainian royal children were present on the highest European thrones (France and other countries) — we always were in Europe. Unfortunately, it's seldom mentioned, that Ukraine was a royal state of Danyl Galytskiy crowned by Pope. And this means, that we always were the members of European states' club. We always were a part of European civilization. In Ukraine took place competition between two great dynasties — the Gabsburgs, the dynasty of Franz-Josip, and the Gogencollers, the court of the Romanovs. Ukrainians have culture kindred to cultures of other European nations. And it is noticeable not only in the elements of cultural inheritance, which are concentrated on Ukraine's territory. These are both Ukrainians' way of life that is rather European, and life style. We have much common with other European nations; therefore it's extremely difficult to look for differences. It's as good as to look for differences among Austrians, Italians, Frenchmen or Portugueses. The differences are: in temperament, in wish to drink either a cup of tea, or aperitif in the morning, to eat either vareniks or clams. But these differences enrich us. As to their mentality, ethnic history, biography, then Ukrainians are Europeans. We gave Europe a number of nationalities, which once lived in our territory: for example, white Croats that migrated to Croatia and today are a part of European community. And we also know, that Goths came to our lands from Vistula banks, and stayed to live here. We know, that Alans and other nations moved from Ukraine to Europe and vice versa. Ukraine is close to Swedes, because its glorious Vikings sat on Kyiv thrones. That's why Europe's history is at the same time Ukraine's history. If there were no Ukraine, it's unknown, what would be Europe's history. On the other hand, if there were no Europe, we wouldn't have Ukrainian state, which had been contested for seven centuries. Copyright © Fundacja Batorego
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