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International Program

The Enlarged EU and Ukraine: New Relations

contact:
Grzegorz Gromadzki
ggromadzki@batory.org.pl,
Anna Wróbel
awrobel@batory.org.pl

The project is financed by the Stefan Batory Foundation (Warsaw), International Rennaissance Foundation (Kyiv), Open Society Institute (Budapest) and has been supported by the Poland-America-Ukraine Cooperation Initiative (PAUCI), financed by the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID).

Interviews

Interview with Mykola Barabash

Chief executive of the Association of Farmers and Landowners of Ukraine.

What does "Ukraine's European choice" mean to you?

To my way of thinking, Ukraine's European choice is Ukraine's purposeful integration into the European Union with all the necessary transformational processes concerning changes in the very principles of public life organisation. These are, first of all, democratisation of political life, development of a truly market economy (not a criminal-corporative one), realisation of a socially oriented policy as regards our own citizens. Ukraine has to accept the rules customary in European countries. To do this the country needs to pass through the period of adaptation, transformation of the legislative sphere, and to modify the pattern [system] of relations between the state and its citizens cardinally. Public relations in the EU countries are based on a ramified system of independent from the state social institutions which are able to realise both individual and collective needs of all members of the society. As for me, there is a very important element in Europe — I mean civil society forming social order for settlement of urgent social problems. I would define a purpose of the transformations necessary to follow our way to Europe — the way of realisation of Ukraine's European choice — as a practically working system of mutual responsibility, first, the authorities' responsibility before the society.

Causes and obstacles of Ukraine's participation in the processes of European integration.

After disintegration of the Soviet Union, Ukraine, like other former Soviet republics, choose its own way. Forms in which Ukraine's state organisation manifested itself were mostly European ones, and fundamentals of building of a new state were based on European democratic principles, from the very start. However, our legislative base differs from the European one considerably, what is conditioned by Ukraine's painful past; and exactly this difference (which is being of a civilisation pattern, in many respects) forms an obstacle on Ukraine's way to European structures. For example, we have a crisis with protection of soil and environment. We need to take over as much as we can from the experience accumulated by countries of the European Union. We possess a great potential of fertile land, its tillage [cultivation] is more than 60%, — none of the countries in the whole world can show such a figure, but the prolificacy is gradually lowering: it went down by several percent during last 3-4 years. And the problem should be solved at the legislative level, first of all. There are programmes determining limits of quantity of nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium etc. in soil, and exceeding of these limits can cause an ecological catastrophe: pollution of water, swamping [waterlogging], humus soil loss, and other harmful consequences will take place. However, these parameters are not fixed in our legislation, the agro-chemical certification has not been carried out yet; therefore, we are ignorant of the cost of a hectare of some concrete land. In the Soviet times, such soil testings were carried out every 5-6 years, and at the expense of the state. Now the process stopped, and it is impossible to determine a scope of responsibility for humus soil deterioration or for its inexpedient [improper] use. The EU countries have accumulated certain experience in certification and standardisation, and this information should be thoroughly examined and adapted to our conditions.

Our authorities' activities should be counted in hindrances impeding Ukraine on its way to European institutions. This concerns the parliament and the government, as well as the president. The absence of contradictions between, first, the branches of power and, second, the power and the society, can constitute a great incentive for changes for the better. As regards the agrarian sector, which I am representing now, — its so-called private sector (farmers and private rural economies) produces 70 percent of agricultural products (10% and 60% correspondingly). Then, we need to review the principles of financing, as individual rural economies have no benefits in the field of crediting. And they need these benefits, as enhancement of their economies' efficiency depends on technical support directly. But the equipment is rather expensive while our farmers are rather poor. Thus, we need to change the approaches in finance and credit sphere and give the farmers an opportunity to obtain credits for 3-15 years. This will permit to raise the level of the whole agrarian sector, as well as the level of the farmers' living standards, in particular; and this will improve the situation in our agricultural sector.

How do you see your country's contribution to the future of Europe; Ukraine's role (real and desirable) in the all-European political, economic and public processes?

Ukraine is able to play a number of various roles, owing to its geopolitical position. It can serve as a bridge between the West and the East, as well as between the countries bordering upon our state. Ukraine can be a simple transit country, of either oil and gas, or illegal migration, depending on which processes will dominate in our country: positive or negative ones. To certain extent, Ukraine could constitute a factor of stability in the region or subregion (I mean Europe, its eastern part, Transdniestria, after all) — the country abandoned its nuclear weapons of its own free will, and there is no common consent about the question amongst the politicians. Thus, with possession of its present defence resources, our country is able to be a guarantee of stability in such a strategically important region like the Eastern Europe. However, as for Ukraine's successful work in this direction, so for confirmation of its ability to function as a guarantee of security in the region, the country needs to pass a "campaign against illiteracy" at European democracy school; we must make changes in all spheres of public, economic and political life.

The EU's present expansion and its influence upon Ukraine.

Just as every change at the neighbour's place influence the situation in your own household, so the present expansion of the EU will undoubtedly have effect upon Ukraine. Our close relations with Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, our citizens' continual [steady] mutual contacts can make up a factor of positive changes in our country, as those transformations the EU membership requires and which are to take place in our neighbouring countries without fail, will reflect on the conscience of those our citizens who often visit these countries, and will be transported to Ukraine in this way. And Europe itself will experience changes, too. But, on the other hand, the world will become harsher, international emulation will intensify, and Ukraine will have to accommodate itself to new conditions. In one way or another, the European Union is approaching to our borders, and we have to take into consideration these new conditions, the situation in which we will have to live. Hence, I see the influence exerted upon our country by the European Union's expansion to the East as mostly positive, because the new economic and political principles the EU is guided by, the principles that are to become indispensable conditions for new members of the EU will organically come into our economic and political system, as they will develop into a standard in both the domestic and foreign policy processes.

The role of the neighbouring countries intending to become the EU members soon (Poland, Hungary, Slovakia), in realisation of the "European choice of Ukraine".

The success of both our state itself and our neighbours aiming to become the EU members soon will depend, first of all, on Ukraine's cooperation with them. Many Ukrainian citizens are now being in search of a job in countries of the European Union, but still more of them are being in Hungary, Poland and Slovakia. Therefore, we cannot avoid contacts with these countries, and it is important to determine the strategy and the tactics of such cooperation. We are equal in rights partners, interested in enlargement of cooperation. Ukraine needs to re-examine its policy as regards patenting and certification closely, as we have many projects in various spheres able to represent the country in the international scene, but we have to associate ourselves with the international standards which are being in force in these fields. Therefore, the neighbouring countries can play an important role in the process of development of the Ukrainian legislation, first, as well as in forming of an effective system of management that would not contradict the European standards. In other words, our neighbours' main role as regards Ukraine is the role of teachers who are well acquainted with our historic, political, social and economic situation and able to help to optimise the process of adaptation of the standards common in countries of the European Union, to the conditions of modern Ukraine, — the conditions which are familiar and well comprehensible to our neighbours. We have entered the world, but we have not accommodated to it yet, we are not so much erudite in questions of international law, and this ignorance often causes violation of these standards and serious losses at the level of state image.

Ukraine's effective way to European structures: independently or together with Russia?

Development of relations between the European Union and Ukraine is not henceforth connected with a leading direction of relations between Russia and the EU anymore. Ukraine has its own way, and it has to walk this way to the European Union on its own. Russia is a too big country, and its possible joining to the European Union will threaten the present order of the structure. The statutory acts regulating the EU's existence are not designed for such huge dimensions and a corresponding quantity of citizens. Ukraine needs, first of all, agreement of its normative-legal field with those standards that are in force in countries of the European Union. This will permit to normalise our state's economic relations with the structure, and to eliminate the differences, especially in the field of standards. Another direction is development and intensification of Ukraine's bilateral contacts with members of the EU. We should not ignore economic contacts with those new states on the post-Soviet space, with which Ukraine possessed long-term experience of industrial and trade cooperation in time of the USSR, either. Our economy "skidded" after the Soviet Union's disintegration, since previous contacts with those countries that had provided us with important components of our manufacturing capabilities, were severed. Of course, Russia is playing a leading role here. Cooperation with this country will be useful for Ukraine and its economy. Unfortunately, we cannot manage to set up our own agricultural engineering, and Russian combine harvesters are better in a number of characteristics. However, our cooperation should not be reduced to contacts with Russia exceptionally, as Russia is drawing us off Europe in a way. Our European neighbours help us a lot. We should direct our efforts toward those attainments the European Union has reached. For example, I deeply appreciate the idea of "Swedish socialism" as a model of state organisation. According to this model, a woman's role becomes more important, — as in society, so in political, economic and public life. We can hardly imagine a woman holding a post of a defence minister. But this is a normal thing. In today's Ukraine, women have not been playing the role they deserve, yet. Actually, there are few of them in the parliament, and they are absent in the government. However, cooperation with Russia is profitable for us and we need to maintain close contacts with this country. Thus, the North-Atlantic Alliance has always played a leading role in Europe. Nevertheless, contradictions between a number of European countries and the USA have been intensified at the present stage, and it is still unknown what the culmination will be like. Under such circumstances, Ukraine has to balance between the powerful European house that is now undergoing the process of reconstruction, and potent (in Ukraine's view) Russia. Our aim is to become a member of the European family, but successful accomplishment of this purpose depends on us solely. Neither Russia nor the EU can help us.

What are the interests our domestic business has in countries of the European Union?

What are the interests of Ukraine's agrarian business in the EU, in your opinion?

Every business must have a purpose, first of all. The Ukrainian business' purpose is to enter the world markets and occupy a place that would be worthy of a European state. For example, Ukraine has worked out many projects in the chemical fertilizers field; these ecologically clean products differ from their present foreign analogues advantageously. But to enter the world or European markets we need to meet the world standards. Our agriculture is now being behindhand; the Arabic Emirates are computerised by 98%, and our farmers mostly have no idea what Internet is, — and it is, first, a flow of new information. Ukrainian agriculture possesses a great potential, but it is unable to compete with European agrarians, especially because of its technical backwardness. Therefore, it is difficult to speak of interests of our business in countries of the European Union, especially as regards the agrarian sector, as without solving of material and technical problems the subject remains within the format of "wishful", not "real" things. The agrarian sector is a problematic one in general, as it will always depend on nature, weather conditions, first. In addition, our tax system denudes an agricultural producer of absolutely everything: from 40% to 70% unprofitableness of agriculture was fixed last year.

What would you advise to change in the EU's policy as regards Ukraine?

The European Union is suspicious of Ukraine as an unstable region. Therefore, they do not see any perspective in future cooperation with the country. At the same time, Ukraine needs the European Union's support, especially in the field of technologies. Then it would be reasonable not to forsake Ukraine despite various conflicts. Ukraine is now being in hard conditions of survival. Corruption, as an inheritance of the Soviet collective system, where there was nobody responsible for serious violations, and shadow economy — these are stigmas on Ukraine's body and at the same time its calamity. Ukraine will not be able to overcome the negative processes on its own, without any help provided by the experienced in such matters Europeans, soon.

What is common and what is different between Ukraine and the "Western culture"? Is Ukraine a part of the Western world?

Ukrainian culture is an absolutely unique one, like a culture of any nation experiencing a period of its own formation (and the Ukrainian nation is rather young, though it had not been born yesterday). On the other hand, absence of statehood together with unsuccessful experience of state formation during many centuries has had an effect on certain national features. Ukraine's participation in the Soviet Union made its alterations, too. The Ukrainians turned out to be "the Soviet ones" in more than 70 years of their being a part of the USSR. Nevertheless, such special features characteristic of the Ukrainians like tolerance, heartiness, benevolence, hospitality, cheerful disposition — remained unchanged. Besides, let us remember those troubles the Ukrainians faced, especially in the XX century: revolutions, wars, famines, disintegration of the [Soviet] system. The United States, for example, have not experienced such upheavals; otherwise, it would be difficult to say what they could have been like today. The tragedy of the World Trade Centre became a very serious blow on the USA, and it has detonated, in fact, the mechanism of a new war — possibly, the World War Third. Therefore, we can say that Ukrainian culture is a unique culture, indeed.

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